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Santiago:

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Loop It In podcast. I'm Santiago Marino, and today's guest is Bryan DeMuro, joining us to talk about his experience with real estate flips, buy-and-holds, self storage management, and also about his experience running a free indoor skate park for the community. So, thank you very much for joining us, Bryan, and welcome to the show.

Bryan:

Thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity, Santiago.

Santiago:

Ah, man, my pleasure, my pleasure. It's great to have you. So, hey, Bryan, why don't we start from the beginning? Tell us a little bit about how you got started in real estate and perhaps about how you got your first rental.

Bryan:

So, it was really wild, actually. While my first rental was many years after I got my first start, I was racing motocross most of my life. Skateboarding, a big part of my life as well. And I got pretty hurt racing [inaudible 00:01:24] 20, and I'm just trying to figure out what the next thing is for me. And a really close mentor, best friend of mine, Dan, that I've worked for him since I was like 15, he had rental properties. He had self storage. And I was looking at the life that it provided him, and I was just, "I need to do this for myself." And I kind of figured out what it would cost to buy self storage. And at the time, I mean, I had nothing. I was flat broke. Every dime I made went right back into racing, and I just kind of gave up on the dream for a little bit.

But I was doing a lot of construction work for him in a lot of his rental properties. And we built a skate park, which we'll talk about that in a little while, but it was... Took it down to a block shell and redid this whole building.

Santiago:

Nice.

Bryan:

Yeah. And I had some construction experience, so I was like, "Dude, let's do a flip house." And I bothered him about that. I asked him every two weeks for about [inaudible 00:02:22] to do a flip, and he said, "Yeah, go find one," just to kind of shut me up, I think. And I found one, and I went under contract and started on my first flip at 22 with $1,600 to my name. So, yeah, it was an experience.

Santiago:

Wow, amazing, 22?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Santiago:

Yeah. Wow. Definitely. I wish I had done that at 22. I find that very interesting that you started at such a young age, because I feel like a lot of people, including myself, don't do that. So-

Bryan:

It's-

Santiago:

... I find that very interesting.

Bryan:

Yeah, it was an-

Santiago:

Sorry, you were saying?

Bryan:

It was an experience, compared to what a lot of people would say. I did all the work myself in that one. Yeah. It's not the way to flip 50 houses a year, absolutely not. But the point was for me, I went in, and I did my first deal. I got the first deal done. I was drinking tap water and eating sandwiches with nothing in the middle, just bread for about nine months. But the best part about it, I used Dan-

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

... for private money on that, and we split the deal. He helped me out a bunch with it too.

Santiago:

Gotcha.

Bryan:

And it was proof of concept for me. And the coolest thing about it was, I mean, on my side of that, I made about $13,000, 12 and a half, 13, something like that, and I was like... I was rich. This was the most money I've ever [inaudible 00:04:01] for me in my life. But the coolest part was taking this just beat house that was vacant for years, renovating it, seeing all the work that's gotten done to it. My vision came to life in the property, and a new family was able to buy it. And, I mean, they've been happy in it. So, this has been for years now. And, to me, that was the biggest part of it.

Santiago:

Right, like very fulfilling-

Bryan:

Absolutely.

Santiago:

... to see the whole process, I'm assuming.

Bryan:

Yeah, yeah. It was kind-

Santiago:

And how... Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sorry, you were saying? It was kind of what?

Bryan:

Yeah, I said it was kind of crazy whenever you go from the beginning to the end. And even now, if I look at the photos from it, it's just like, wow. You know what I mean? And that's where I got my start. It was about the hardest way into it, but, I mean, I did it, and that was ultimately getting the first deal, getting it done, and proving myself that I was capable [inaudible 00:05:00].

Santiago:

Wow, amazing. And then, after that first deal, how much time went by until you got that second one? When did you think you were ready for the second one?

Bryan:

Interestingly enough, right after I did the first deal, I was like, "This is it. I'm flipping houses forever. I love [inaudible 00:05:21]." You know what I mean? And I started looking for another deal. And Dan's mom, she retired in like 1996, and she was just a real people person and liked renting storage units and talking to people. And sadly, she got really sick, and I got the opportunity to start managing self storage. And we have 424 units, 47 spots up on the hill. So we had like 471 units here. So, I got the opportunity to do that. So I just pumped the brakes on flipping houses and took about two years to really learn what [inaudible 00:06:02] with self storage, understand the time into it, what I needed to get very well at it. And from there, when I was 26, I think it was 2018, I ended up buying three properties that year. I bought two buy-and-holds. Both of the buy-and-holds are off-market. One I used creative finance, and then I did a flip that year as well.

Santiago:

Wow. So that was a nice jump. So two years, a little bit off, but then jumped in with three deals.

Bryan:

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of wild-

Santiago:

Interesting.

Bryan:

... how whenever you start marketing for things or looking for things and talking to people, and you'll go sometimes a few months with nothing, and then everything just comes all at once. And that's what it did for me. The first rental property, I actually bought it, it was like January 27th, and it was Super Bowl Sunday. I was hanging out. Actually, I have a little apartment up above that skate park, and I was just hanging out, and it was snowing, and was kind of chilling. You know what I mean? It was a Sunday night, and, four days in, I get a call, "Hey, the furnace is broke." So I made it four days before I had my first maintenance problem, but-

Santiago:

Oh no.

Bryan:

Yeah, it goes like that sometimes. But the [inaudible 00:07:25], the two rentals, there was no work into them for me. And in the flip house, it was just in a small market outside of Harrisburg in Bressler, and it was a pretty cut-and-dry... paint, flooring, a little bit of electrical. It wasn't too extravagant. But it didn't really take that long. I think closing to closing, that was actually six months to the day. And the cool thing about this was, whenever I went, I got my check from closing, and I was like, "Wow." I got a check for like 150-some thousand for me, and I have to go pay off my credit line to do this.

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

Walk into the bank to give them the money, pay off the credit line I was using, and the old president from the bank was retiring, and they were having a party for him, so I got to cash my check for this flip and have a bunch of cookies and stuff like this in the bank. So the timing of that was just hilarious.

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Santiago:

Awesome. You thought it was for you, basically.

Bryan:

I wish it was for me. I mean, every time I go to the bank, it would be cool if they would do that. But it was just fitting for that. It worked.

Santiago:

Oh, man. That's interesting. And when it comes to all the work, normally, how many people are in your crew or in your team? How many-

Bryan:

So-

Santiago:

... people do you work with to get it done, the flips?

Bryan:

... my first deal, my very first one, the way I do stuff now, it's different than my first deal. So, my first deal, I knew a guy. He's been doing electricity since Edison created it, and he's retired now. And, for instance, I did all the work with him with it, and he took the time to show me how to do stuff. The second deal, the second flip, I leveraged a lot of the stuff out. Things like paint, stuff like that, I would do that. That's no [inaudible 00:09:28]. I also learned I really enjoyed sanding floors. Kind of like mowing the grass, you know what I mean? You start mowing the grass, and your stripes come in, and you're like, "Wow, this is cool." That's kind of how sanding a floor was to me. But with the second deal, I leveraged more stuff out.

Again, at this point in time in my life, I was making like $2,600 a year pre-tax. So what I had to do was a little different than what a lot of other people had to do. Now, I had the time that I was able to maximize my time and capitalize on it, but I had to do what I had to do at that point in time. So, now, the way things are today, it's a lot different. It's probably around 60/40. I mean, if I want to do something, I'll do it, mainly because I have the skills, and I do enjoy the challenge of it. If it's something that I know that it's a good chance you're going to break a water line behind a wall that's going to leak down into an apartment beneath you, I'm not doing it. You know what I [inaudible 00:10:34]?

Santiago:

Totally. Yeah. Don't want to take that risk.

Bryan:

No, no. No, not at all.

Santiago:

Totally, totally. Now, that being said, has anything like that ever happened to you or gotten close to any unforeseen event-

Bryan:

Oh, yeah.

Santiago:

... like that during the construction or the flips?

Bryan:

Yes. There's always stuff that comes up. I cut the wrong water line a couple times. Luckily, I was able to shut the water off. They were single-family homes.

Santiago:

Oh no.

Bryan:

But in the market that I'm in, I don't really have very many newer houses, so it's all old. The biggest thing that I found whenever I was starting was, things that should take maybe an hour will take two or three, because just maybe something wasn't ran properly. They were older homes. I really try now to mitigate that and really plan out. If I'm doing it, I try to plan it out. I mean, if not, the contractors, I mean, they know. They work in this stuff all the time. But there's always crazy stuff [inaudible 00:11:51] that just, you always come across some weird thing.

Or, for instance, like code, I remember dealing with code for the first time when I was 22. For instance, I had a sidewalk from a front porch around to the back porch, and it was an old beat-up sidewalk, and I dug it out, framed everything, pinned it all up, ready for concrete. Concrete truck comes, and the borough manager comes and is like, "Hey, you can't do this." And it was like, "Why? This isn't through code. This is like pouring a pad in your yard for like to put a grill on, essentially. It's the same thing." And, "Yo, it needs to go through code." "All right."

And [inaudible 00:12:35] sent the concrete truck away. I'm like, "Can I draw something up for you? What can I do just so I can get this done?" And, "Nope, you have to send this concrete truck away." And I was on the phone with the code enforcer then, with the company they used, and they're like, "This isn't through us." And I'm like, "Okay, that's what all that." So she makes me send this concrete truck away, and I'm like, "Can I draw anything for you?" "No, no." "All right."

So I stopped down in her office the next day, and, "What can I do so I can pour this sidewalk, this existing sidewalk from a front porch to a back porch through my yard?" And she's like, "Well, can you just draw this out?" And I'm like, "Why couldn't I do this yesterday? You know what I mean? I offered to do this for you yesterday." She's like, "No, just draw something out, and I can give you a permit." I was like, "All right." So I draw it out, make it real nice, like the most detailed drawing for a 15-foot sidewalk that you've ever seen in your life. And she's like, "Okay, that works." And I go, "Can I get my permit now?" She goes, "There is no permit." And I'm like, "What? You made me send a concrete truck away for permit, and I don't even get a permit." So it's sometimes not so much stuff that you see in construction. Sometimes it's people that you deal with in the construction.

Santiago:

I agree. Yeah, I'm sure you need to develop certain people skills and be very patient when you're doing this kind of work.

Bryan:

Oh, yeah. And, I mean, I don't know how to word it other than, when you're 22, people still treat you like a kid at times, and it's good to stand up for yourself, but do it in the right way that you're not-

Santiago:

Totally.

Bryan:

... [inaudible 00:14:23] about it. You know what I mean? I never was swearing at the lady. I was always polite to her. I was... Growing up, if I don't call somebody sir or ma'am, at 31, my mom would break through this wall behind me and, "Use your manners, young man." So, I mean, I was always very polite with her.

Santiago:

Good.

Bryan:

It's a good learning experience dealing... just knowing the stuff that gives into it, whatever you're learning, at least in my opinion. I mean, [inaudible 00:14:52] said, I didn't come from a 100,000 a year job and be... I started with nothing. So, that was my barrier to entry.

Santiago:

Gotcha. Gotcha. Wow, very interesting. And let's talk a little bit about the self storage manager. You mentioned that you started doing that after your first deal for a while, for two years.

Bryan:

[inaudible 00:15:20].

Santiago:

Can you tell us the learning curve for that? What are some of the things that you didn't know you had to apply in this kind of industry that you learned with experience as a self storage manager?

Bryan:

Absolutely. So, whenever I started doing all this with Paul's Store-All, they were actually doing it out of three ring binder through this note card system, very old-school. And it worked, but whenever I got this popped on me, I was like, "I'm just not doing [inaudible 00:15:48]. No way." And at the time, self storage software wasn't nearly what it is today. And I got a self storage software. I unloaded everything. And the deal, at least in Pennsylvania with self storage is, it's pretty cut and dry. It's pretty simple. The thing for me was learning how to schedule my day, make appointments, and really get on a good schedule. When I was doing that first flip house, I was on a relatively decent schedule, but I just had to be at one place, and then, I had to be at that skate park at 6:00 on certain days of the week to open it. So, that was pretty much it. I had two places to be.

Learning self storage, it was learning how to... I have these appointments on this day. On this day, late letters go out. I need to reach out to these people on another day. Certified mail for storage sale goes out on another. So there was a lot of time management that I had to learn with that. And then, just dealing with people. I mean, I went from-

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

... really having no tenants under me to managing, factoring in people that have double, probably 375ish people. And, sometimes, people get really upset. Sometimes, people are really cool to deal with. So, it was a lot of learning how to manage people and understanding, sometimes, people are just having a bad day, and I'm the guy that they get it taken out. And it happens. You'll find that in anything, if you're a mail carrier, if you're a property manager in real estate, you're selling cars, anything. I mean, sometimes, people have a bad day. [inaudible 00:17:41] the guy getting the brunt of it that day. But, for the most part, for the most part, self storage is pretty basic to run. The people, 98% of the time, are awesome to deal with. If I see tenants and stuff out here, I go out and [inaudible 00:18:02], ask them how their day's been. And, overall, self storage has been a great experience.

Santiago:

Interesting. Yeah, because with my experience, I think best-case scenario is, someone goes in, pays, puts their stuff in the container or whatever, and then, at the end of the month or when they're done, they take it out, period, right? That's best-case scenario.

Bryan:

Yeah. Yeah. So we typically have between like-

Santiago:

And worse...

Bryan:

Yeah. We have about a year and a half to two-year average stay, So we don't really get many in-and-outs. But the worst case, yeah, the worst case is you just end up selling the unit. You don't have to go through this lengthy eviction process like you do in housing. And it's kind of like a 1, 2, 3. Three months, you're gone. I understand that self storage... and I'll get some flack about this, but I mean, it's the truth. Self storage is a lower priority bill than your rent or your mortgage or your light bill. So I understand that it's probably one of the first ones, if somebody has a tight month, to get ignored.

Being said, with all the units that we have, we advertise sale probably 10 months out of the year. And if we get one unit or two, that's a big sale. So, we lock people out. We do all the remedy that you're supposed to. And most of the time, people pay, and that's out of 471. So, it's very rare. It's very rare that people just straight go [inaudible 00:19:42]-

Santiago:

I see.

Bryan:

... and just, they're out, you know what I mean, like they just don't pay. So, most of the time, people come back and pay.

Santiago:

Got it. Got it. And then, when you sell those, is that like an auction like I've seen on TV kind of thing?

Bryan:

Yeah. Yeah. [inaudible 00:19:58]-

Santiago:

People go in and buy them blindly and then-

Bryan:

Yeah, yeah, we call-

Santiago:

Or how does that work?

Bryan:

We call it TV rules. If you're a giraffe and can reach your head all the way in the back and look in, then you got the advantage. But we open the door. When you open the door, you walk in, and highest bid gets it. Then you have to the end of the weekend to clean it out.

Santiago:

[inaudible 00:20:16]. Has anybody ever found, or have you found something particularly interesting to share?

Bryan:

Yeah, there's always things that show up. So, over the years, there's been a lot of just weird things that have happened at Paul's Store-All. If you work at a Giant and you're there long enough, you'll see some interesting things. You'll find a lot of Christmas tree stands, a lot of Christmas tree stands. You'll see those

Recently-

Santiago:

That's funny.

Bryan:

... we've been finding, in the sales, some older tools, things like that. I mean, nothing of super high value. I mean, we've had units that've had [inaudible 00:21:05] Mac toolboxes, things like that. Most of it, though, honestly, is if you just think of stuff that's in your basement or your attic, and you're like, "Man, I really need this space, but I don't want to throw it out. I want to go through it," it just goes into storage. And that's what a lot of people do with it. And the goal is eventually, they'll go through it and liquidate and/or get rid of things, and just, a lot of the times, it just stays there.

Santiago:

Gotcha. Gotcha. And, on average, about how much do they sell for when people bid for them?

Bryan:

Not as high as TV. I'll say that. I am a firm believer that a lot of the things in the Storage Wars show is definitely put in there and done up for TV.

Santiago:

It's not true.

Bryan:

But, I mean, average, you're looking around 150 to 300 a unit. Sometimes, they sell for 20. We've had some sell for-

Santiago:

Oh, okay.

Bryan:

... 800. So, I mean, it all really just depends on what's in there, or what somebody perceives to be in there.

Santiago:

Got it. Got it. Got it. So, as an investment, do you think it's something that people should probably know about, perhaps investing in an actual storage facility and doing this as a business? Is that-

Bryan:

Yeah. So-

Santiago:

... something you would recommend to someone?

Bryan:

I think so. I'll tell you this. I mean, if I was managing 471 apartments, it would be a heck of lot harder than in storage. Your maintenance is, maybe a light's out or a door spring's broken or getting rid of snow. It's not a heater going out when it's cold. It's not a pipe breaking-

Santiago:

[inaudible 00:22:57], mm-hmm.

Bryan:

... behind a wall and running into another unit. The maintenance on it's super low. The underwriting of it is fairly similar to multi-family. It is fairly lucrative to get in, though. That's the deal with it.

Santiago:

Makes sense.

Bryan:

Yeah.

Santiago:

Very interesting. Yeah, I've always thought that that would be a good investment, same with some people that invest in lots for people to park cars and trucks, places that require little to no maintenance. It's really just a lot. Need a fence, maybe.

Bryan:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, those-

Santiago:

In your case, a few other things as well.

Bryan:

Yeah, I mean, they're very, very, very hands-off, and that's really nice on a management and a business aspect of it. I mean, the maintenance is a lot lower than other things. Like [inaudible 00:23:55]-

Santiago:

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm definitely interested in that. I'm going to look into it a little bit more.

Bryan:

We've had some wild stuff happen, though. It was wild.

Santiago:

I'm sorry? What were you saying?

Bryan:

We had some wild stuff happen.

Santiago:

Oh, really? Like [inaudible 00:24:06].

Bryan:

The last year or so, a kid, he was 20 years old. Sadly, he was drinking and driving, went through a guardrail and launched off a [inaudible 00:24:18]-foot bank and cleared about 65 feet and landed into the side of our building. And I'll tell you guys this. I mean-

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

... he was in a... and I forget the name, but it was a Scion compact car, and that kid walked out of there completely unscathed. So if you want to get reckless in a car, a Scion is the way to go. I mean, how this kid not only wasn't hurt at all, but-

Santiago:

Safe cars.

Bryan:

... [inaudible 00:24:42]. Yeah. That guy took out three storage units. You know what I mean-

Santiago:

Got lucky.

Bryan:

... like three individual units. And, like I said, he launched probably 60, 70 feet off of a 15-foot-high bank and completely unscathed.

Santiago:

And what happens to the items that were in those units? Mm-hmm.

Bryan:

Yeah, so there was three units. The one person in the middle unit didn't even... They were like, "I understand. Things happen. It was out of your reach." And they had their insurance. Whenever you come here, you can either provide your own insurance, or you're self-insured, one of the two. The person in the end unit, they had a-

Santiago:

Gotcha.

Bryan:

... [inaudible 00:25:25] from about 2003 that broke, and they were kind of upset about that, but we got everything taken care of with them. And then the one unit was empty. So the person [inaudible 00:25:38] for that, and they use it-

Santiago:

That's easy.

Bryan:

... part-time of the year. The part-time, it's empty, but they just pay for the year, and they use it when they need it. So, two out of three ain't bad, I guess.

Santiago:

Gotcha. It wasn't... Two out of three. Wow, very interesting. Well, thank you for all of that information. Definitely opens up a lot of possibilities, because I think a lot of people, when they think of real estate and land, they only think of houses and apartments.

Bryan:

No, I know.

Santiago:

But there's so much more.

Bryan:

Oh, absolutely.

Santiago:

I think the self-storage facility business, it's certainly interesting. Mm-hmm. Now, I wanted to ask you about sourcing your deals. You mentioned that you source them off-market.

Bryan:

No.

Santiago:

Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Bryan:

Yeah, so, nothing against real estate agents or anything like that, I've just had good luck finding stuffs off the market. I [inaudible 00:26:33] active in my community. I'm in the Lions Club among the board of directors for the [inaudible 00:26:40]. So I'm always doing stuff in town. People know about me, and I talk about what do.

Santiago:

Amazing.

Bryan:

And, besides that, I'll get on PropStream, full list, all people, and just keep up with them, just touch base with them, see how they're doing. But a lot of my deals have came from just the network of people around me, people that see me doing stuff, and they're like, they know what I do. And I live in a pretty small market. So, being active in the market, people seeing me-

Santiago:

Gotcha.

Bryan:

... doing stuff to the community and bettering the community. And I try to be as approachable as I can. I mean, I'm always happy to talk to people [inaudible 00:27:20]. So that's brought a lot of deals to me.

Santiago:

Makes sense.

Bryan:

[inaudible 00:27:28] people, letting people know [inaudible 00:27:29]. I mean, that's the best thing to do. I mean, I'm not out buying... Like I said, I'm not buying 50 units a year, 50 houses a year. I mean, I do about two, three transactions a year, and that works for me for right now.

Santiago:

Thank you. And I'm glad you touched on your interest in being part of the community and helping out the community. That's something I definitely wanted to touch on. The indoor skate park that you've been operating for almost 12 years now, can you tell us a little bit about that?

Bryan:

Yeah. Yeah. So, this was my mentor Dan I was saying about earlier. So I grew up skateboarding, I skateboarded from when I was eight to when I was about 16. Racing got a little bit serious for me, so I stopped skating for a couple years. So I was working with him. When I was in the state, I'd stay here, work with him. I'd be able to ride here and then go out and race. And people in town were complaining about the skateboarders. And Dan's like, "There's this property in"-

Santiago:

Course.

Bryan:

... "town at... The borough is on the other owner to either tear it down or clean it up. Do you want to buy it and put a skate park in it?" I was like, "Are you serious?" And he goes, "Well, you know, I could buy a beach house, or I could do this for the community. I'd rather do that." And I was like, "Okay." And that's something that really stuck with me. I mean, what I was learning about money, this guy was giving back and providing value to other people, not even in a monetary thing. He was putting his money where his mouth was and trying to better other [inaudible 00:29:08] and make his community better. And that spoke [inaudible 00:29:10]. That spoke to me.

So he bought this building. It was 1.9 acres, commercially zoned in town for $70,000 in 2011, and we worked on it like crazy. I mean-

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

... we tore it down to a [inaudible 00:29:26], put a new roof on it, redid the whole front end. I mean, this place was disgusting. There was nine tons of tires in this building. We spent the first probably months-

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

... cleaning out the part that the skate park was in. I mean, you couldn't even see the floor in there. And he put his money where his mouth was and built this place for the kids, and we opened the end of September 2011. And it's free. It's Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 6:00 to 9:00, Sunday, 4:00 to 8:00. We've had those same hours forever. And the mission with that, outside of-

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

... keeping it going, which it's been going now for over a decade, is, as the kids come through and they turn 17, 18, we can put them in a position where they can come, and they get a key. They can open one night a week. They get some volunteer community-

Santiago:

Wow.

Bryan:

... stuff that they can do. They get a little bit of management experience, opening-

Santiago:

Amazing.

Bryan:

... closing. It looks good on a resume. It looks good on a resume for people. Outside of that-

Santiago:

Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Bryan:

Yeah. Yeah. And outside of that, to me, it's cool being able to talk to these kids. And there's always some issues that you just don't want to talk to your parents about, like, "Oh, man, how should I go about [inaudible 00:30:48]?" Kind of guide these kids in a right direction, and show them, too, you can be the craziest dude on a skateboard all you want, but you can still go out and succeed in business and do whatever you want. I mean, you don't have to let one thing define your all entire life. It's 2023 now. You can do everything.

Santiago:

Mm-hmm. I agree, yeah. I agree. That's fantastic. That's so awesome. I hope one day I can go and visit and get on a skateboard.

Bryan:

Well, you're always welcome to come up, brother. You-

Santiago:

I'll probably need some helmets and protective gear.

Bryan:

I'll get you some elbow pads.

Santiago:

Oh, thank you very much, Bryan. I'll bring my helmet, my... Okay. My pads. Awesome. And as far as the construction of the skate park itself, I'm assuming you put rails, right, and the ramps?

Bryan:

Yeah. Yeah. So-

Santiago:

What else?

Bryan:

We built... Basically it's kind of like... You think of like a half-pipe. It's kind of like that spread out a lot more. One side has an S turn in it. The other side's a little bit taller with a bank ramp in it. But we built all that. Funny enough, in between my first flip and doing my... starting the other stuff with the rental properties and whatnot, I did build for Dew Tour at Ocean City, and I got to build some skate parks and stuff down there as well, actually, on the beach in Ocean City, which was-

Santiago:

Oh wow.

Bryan:

... pretty interesting. But yeah, I mean, we-

Santiago:

Wow, amazing.

Bryan:

... [inaudible 00:32:27] The thing ourselves. I got really good at cutting half circles with a circular saw and a worm drive, but I like-

Santiago:

Nice.

Bryan:

... the challenge of building that kind of stuff. Nothing is straight. Don't get me wrong, all the decks and everything are level, but you're doing some intricate cuts, and it's just, nothing is standard on it, and it's fun. It's a good challenge [inaudible 00:32:56].

Santiago:

Interesting. Yeah, there's a lot of room for creativity and how can we make it more interesting, more fun [inaudible 00:33:05].

Bryan:

Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, those bowl pieces, I mean, nothing in those... Whenever you have wood curving this way and that way, nothing is straight at all. So it's wild. You look at it. The joints look like they're straight. They're actually kind of football-shaped whenever you pull them out. So, it's definitely a challenge [inaudible 00:33:28].

Santiago:

Wow. Very interesting. Super cool. And Bryan, there's another thing I wanted to talk about. You mentioned about being a Subto student, if I'm pronouncing that correctly.

Bryan:

Oh, a Subto student.

Santiago:

And I did some research on that, and it seems quite interesting. Subto students, can you tell us a little bit about that, your experience with that?

Bryan:

Yeah, I mean, it's a community I'm in. Pace Morby is like the head of it. We do a lot of things with creative finance, [inaudible 00:33:59], off-market deals. For me, it was joining the community. I mean, I'm surrounded now by a community of people that are like-minded. And I think everybody should do something like that. I go to the networking events locally in the area. I go to some of the Subto networking events. Just being around other people in the business, it's always good. You can bounce ideas off of and get battle buddies to do things.

Santiago:

Nice. Yeah, very interesting. I like how you mentioned the importance of being part of the community, networking, and also mentorship. I think a lot of people don't really realize how beneficial that can be, having a mentor and being a mentor for other people. I don't know.

Bryan:

Yeah. I mean, I owe pretty much everything to Dan. He was the dude that took a chance on me and got me started. Outside of that, I mean, just getting around people that are doing it. Things will sound really scary, "How do I deal with this problem?" until you've dealt with someone who's went through that problem, and he's like, "Oh, dude, that's nothing. You just got to do this, this, and this, and it's solved."

Yeah. And I found that just getting around people that are where you want to be and that are doing the business, that helps so much. I mean, I remember having my worst day in real estate, and I called Dan, and I was like, "Dude, this, this, and this went wrong, and I don't know what's up." I was miserable that day. Everything went wrong, and he just started laughing on the phone, and I immediately was like, "You're laughing at this?" He goes, "Don't worry about it. We'll get this taken care of," and stuff like that. If I didn't have somebody to lean on, what ended up being [inaudible 00:36:06] super big problem was a big problem to me at the time. He just eliminated it and was like, "This is no problem. We can take care of it." And it's good to have those kind of people in your back and surrounded by you that you can lean on, and it just helps. It really does help. Get around other people that are doing things that you want to do, and provide value to them, also.

Santiago:

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Because, sometimes, right, like, "How can I be of value to you?" I agree. Yeah, a little bit of give and take.

Bryan:

Absolutely.

Santiago:

Nice balance. Yeah. Yeah, that brings me back to another interesting point that we wanted to talk about about why your why's important, why your why's important. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Bryan:

Yes, yes. Your why is different from everybody. I mean, for me, it's how I can give back to my community. Where I'm at right now with my current portfolio, I mean, I'm pretty good. I can live an okay life. Everything now going forward is what I can do to help give back and improve others. I mean, I'm now just kind of... I don't have a unit goal. I just want to reach my potential. And for me, it's finding that. What real estate has provided for me is a way that I have time that I can give back. As funny as it sounds, I can go and paint the community pool and save them money on a Thursday afternoon if I want to. I can take the time and... Or I can take the money and donate it to the Lions Club to help a family that might've had a fire, or somebody that needs to get glasses.

And, for me, that's the biggest part, is what I can do to give back. I mean, don't get me wrong. I want to take care of my family and stuff, but I mean, I don't have a wife and kids. I have four cats, and I can only buy so much cat food. I mean, at least in the meantime-

Santiago:

Mm-hmm, nice.

Bryan:

... they're taken care of. And it's what I can do now to help better my community and do the things that I want to see in my community. And that's a big thing that drives me. It will take a good day and make it great, and it'll take your bad days and make them a lot better. And it's always good to keep that in mind. You'll run into points... Anytime in your business, eventually, you'll have one day that it's just like, "Why am I doing this?" And it's like, "Oh yeah, this is why. This is the big picture." I just think it's important for people to key in on that and focus on it.

Santiago:

Wow. I agree. I agree. Very powerful words you mentioned, because, yeah, at the end of the day, I think, sometimes people think that to be happy, they just need to satisfy all their desires. But I've heard from many people, including yourself just now, you didn't say it necessarily, but I think that by helping the community, by helping others is how humans get to be the happiest, I think. It's like, we're here as a team.

Bryan:

And if you break it down, we're on a rock flying through outer space together. You know what I mean? Why not try to help each other out the best we can? Yeah.

Santiago:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. That's a great way to look at things. And Bryan, going back to the investments and running your business, are there any special tools or softwares that you like to use and that you would recommend and why? How are they useful to you?

Bryan:

Yeah, I use DoorLoop for my property management. I mean, I have 16 units, and I manage a duplex for a friend of mine. so I have 18 units in that, and makes everything perfect. I mean, it is very easy to use. It's user-friendly. I like that. For sourcing some of my off-market stuff, I use PropStream. I mean, I can pull a skip trace off of that. Both those tools really make things a lot easier, in my opinion.

Santiago:

Nice. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I'm really glad that DoorLoop has been good to you and that it makes your life easier, and your business.

Bryan:

The customer service is amazing. I'm not trying to [inaudible 00:40:45]. It's great.

Santiago:

Ah, thank you. Thank you for mentioning that. We hear that a lot, which makes me very happy, because we do have a great team. The culture here at DoorLoop is really nice. We try our best to provide a fantastic service to everyone.

Bryan:

Oh, it's-

Santiago:

And so I'm really glad that it's working for you, Bryan.

Bryan:

It's great. You can call people [inaudible 00:41:08] get ahold people, so, I love that.

Santiago:

Right. Real people, right?

Bryan:

Yes sir. Yes sir.

Santiago:

Bryan, out of everything you've learned from mentors like Dan, is there anything in particular, any habit or any practice, something that you learned that you now apply that comes to mind that you'd like to share with us, something you learned along the way that has helped you a lot?

Bryan:

Yeah, I mean, it kind of ties in with the why, is, I mean, ultimately, not to be greedy. I mean, that's the thing. I mean ,there's a difference, I think, in being greedy and doing things for the right way. Outside of that, I mean, practices, I mean, whenever we go through and look at properties, I mean, a thing that's helped me is, I was essentially a contractor. I know what I'm looking at. I know how to handle the contractors, because I've done a lot of [inaudible 00:42:10]. I tell my contractors, "I really don't care what you charge, as long as you're doing a good job. If you're doing a good job, I want you to be able to make money. Now, don't go and pipe me on it, but if you're charging a fair price for the job, I would rather [inaudible 00:42:25] that and keep the relationship going and give you a return customer. I'll keep coming back."

Santiago:

I agree.

Bryan:

"I just don't want to have to go back and fix it three months later." So, it's really... Doing [inaudible 00:42:40] the hard way at first has really helped. It's helped me a lot with where I'm at in my investing now as I'm starting to hire contractors out and have other jobs done. I can really look at bids and figure out where this really should be. And I understand. Contractors, they have a wife. They have a kid. They have families. They have insurance. They have payroll. They need to make money too, and I understand that. So, it's being able to look at stuff and figure out what things about should be. And that was a big thing. Because Dan was originally a masonry contractor. He felt, storage, you get out of doing masonry. He was self-employed too at 22, so he got out of it when he was 39. But-

Santiago:

Oh wow. Nice.

Bryan:

... that was one of the big things that stuck with me, is learning what things should cost and being able to apply it to where I'm at with my properties.

Santiago:

I see. Thank you for that, Bryan. All right, Bryan. So, question. Do you have any particular projects coming up in the near future regarding maybe opening up another skate park or anything big like that that you'd like to share with us?

Bryan:

No, no opening any more skate parks. We have two of those right now. [inaudible 00:44:02] we got one at a public sale. Right when COVID started, right when they shut the state of Pennsylvania down, we bought one at a public sale, and it's in a [inaudible 00:44:11] building. But right now, I'm just turning units. I have a vacant here right now that we're in the middle of renovations on, value add, smaller multi-families. I am actually going to be selling my first rental property I bought. And if everything goes according, I mean, we'll be-

Santiago:

Nice.

Bryan:

I'm not going to drop any numbers or anything yet, but I'm going to be in a self storage deal, hopefully, [inaudible 00:44:38] market with creative finance, seller financing on it at a really good rate, like an interest rate. So, I don't want to jinx it yet. I mean, we don't have anything signed [inaudible 00:44:49].

Santiago:

Amazing.

Bryan:

But, I mean, we'll see. Yeah.

Santiago:

Nice, nice. Okay, Bryan, so just one last question here, what tips would you give to someone who is interested or maybe just learning about getting into real estate?

Bryan:

I have a few, is, obviously, first, get educated. I mean, my first rental property, I bought, my payment on it was 517.73 a month, and I was bringing $650 a month in. And I was like, "Dude, I got cash flow." And I didn't think of this thing called [inaudible 00:45:32] and taxes. Being said, I was able to hold. If you can hold long enough and keep doing your rent raises, you'll be fine. I mean, real estate, if you can hold long-term, usually always does well. But get educated on it. Get around people that are doing it. And if you are able to talk to them, if you ask them a question or, "Hey, how do I source a deal?" and they tell you how to do it, go do it. Go take massive imperfect action and just do it.

Because here's the deal. You're going to mess up. I mean, everybody messes up. It's part of it. It's not one or [inaudible 00:46:13]. It's [inaudible 00:46:14]. And, I mean, nobody in real estate has done everything 100% perfect. Everybody [inaudible 00:46:21]. And don't let the fear [inaudible 00:46:24] stop you from doing it. Just get out [inaudible 00:46:27]. Either get on the phone, or calling people, or going to your networking events, [inaudible 00:46:33] you need to do to get things [inaudible 00:46:35]. There are plenty of people out there that are willing to help you [inaudible 00:46:39]. You just got to go find [inaudible 00:46:40].

Santiago:

And Bryan, is there a way for people to contact you in case they have any questions about real estate, or perhaps about skateboarding?

Bryan:

Yeah, absolutely. You can follow me on Instagram at bryan_demuro, D-E-M-U-R-O. I'll also respond to cat videos. You're welcome to send me those too. And you can send me an email at streetcatinvestments@outlook.com.

Santiago:

Amazing. Amazing. I'll make sure to add that in the description for the podcast. Thank you very much, Bryan.

Bryan:

I appreciate it.

Santiago:

Do you have any closing thoughts before we leave, any last idea you would like to leave us with?

Bryan:

Well, I just want to thank-

Santiago:

Anything else?

Bryan:

... you all for the opportunity to come out and let me do this with you. I mean, this is the first one I've ever done, so it's been an experience, and I'm really happy I had the opportunity to do it. So I just want to thank you, Santiago, a ton for this.

Santiago:

Oh man, my pleasure, Bryan. It was a lot of fun. It's been great getting to know you, learning about your business. And I have to thank you very much for joining us today. Really. It's amazing that you had the time to join us, and I really appreciate that.

Bryan:

Thank you.

Santiago:

Okay. Of course, of course, thank you. I'm really glad that you're out there helping out the community with the skate parks, with the kids, providing housing for everyone in your community. I think that's very, very powerful. And I really appreciate you joining us and sharing your perspective. All right, so Bryan DeMuro, ladies and gentleman. Thank you very much. Good bye!

Bryan:

Thank you.

Presenter:

Thanks for listening all the way to the end. Don't forget to give us a good rating on whatever platform you're tuning in from, and we'll be back soon with another new episode. We hope to see you there. And until next time, this has been input in.

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